Rebirth Coins - Out of Balance

[Gorka]

* The longer you play sloth the more likely there will come a time when coins are worth almost nothing.

* There are at least 3 secrets to having coins, don't group - solo, kill little rich mobs a lot, don't have too many chars.

* There comes a point when the lag from the search command doesn't yield the same value as the coins it occasionally finds. I turned off the automatic cache searching kill script I have, and found my xp improved as much as 150m an hour, just from command lag reduction.

* There used to be a command (exchange) where coins could be traded for xp - which could be used to control the value of game coins because coins would always have a value. The value of everything in game seems to be the lowest I've ever seen it.

* The suck hole of buying vaults does eventually end... I am approaching 15,000 vault slots.

* A malicious person could crash the sloth economy with the amount of coins there is, if they choose not to "play along" with the perceived current value of goods which keeps the sloth economy stable, by hiding the truth about the over supply of coins.

* The oversupply of coins exists mostly with end of game type avatars.

Would the imms perhaps consider some measures to increase the value of coins. Why do this? Well, In my position, I have spare gems I could be selling to new players... but when all they can offer me is coins (in some cases)... what can I do - they are completely worthless - for the sake of all players, the economy needs a little attention. If we were to raise the price of items, to match the coin inflation of rebirth avatars, the new players won't survive... so something needs doing about rebirth coins - but don't be dumb and nerf mob coins that will only effect new players the most - find something for rebirths to spend coins on to make them valuable again.

[Insomnia]

Random idea, let's introduce a monthly service charge for vault rooms. The first room is always free. Every additional room requires you to pay 1mil gold coins per month to use it. You can choose to not pay, have vault space temporarily disabled – and then you just pay 1mil when you decide to use it again.

[cnl]

I think a tax on vault storage space isn't what is needed here, the trick is to find something that folks want to spend their money on. Also I don't like this idea because I couldn't afford it. I bought those things to save me rent.

Currently, gold to me seems to be something I need quite badly, and when I'm reborn - I imagine the problem will persist or get even worse until well into reborn buys - since xp increase but gold remains the same. Gold is tight right now and I've often have to stop XP hunting to work on Gold. Perhaps other peoples experience is different, but I feel mid-game gold is balanced quite well.

Of course, there is a finite amount of things to buy, and as a late game char once you've bought most of them gold does by definition become useless. Are the XP requirements for late game buys growing at a significantly higher rate than the gold costs, where you accumulate much more gold than XP?

[Gorka]

Although I don't like Insomnia's suggestion - he does make a point worth highlighting... monthly charges.

You see what ever the imms create that I can buy, I would eventually get, and the problem returns again once the purchase is made... so the imms would need to think of "re-usable" items in my opinion... things like special personalized potions, or perhaps monthly charges on purchasing extra beacons, vault regen or something like that. A perks for coins scheme perhaps...

Wouldn't mind seeing scrolls of clan recall as well obviously they should be priced for everyone though, at the typical 10k.

[cnl]

consumables is an option but at 10k each clan recall scrolls aren't going to eat into much gold.
that's 100 recalls on 1mil gold. even if you recall all the time that's a lot. you could have tiered pricing like you do on the recall scrolls maybe ? 5k starting price, 10k avatar, 50k or 100k on reborn.

could likewise add a tier to recalls for reborns. kind feel like there would need to be more things for this to have any kind of real sink value. poisons for reborn thieves that add a little extra dam. tiered refresh potions for warriors?

of course if you set the price high enough that it will have impact then people maybe just choose not to use.

[*Idjit*]

minor ideas:
sell some of the rarer thief poisons macedon, ryodine, spiritseeker
maybe at lyme potion shop

sell some of the rarer Liquids at the bars
orc draught, ent draught, miruvor

these are two quick one-offs

[*Idjit*]

white-list some buffing (but not too buffing) potions that CAN work in the coliseum with a new flag.
Then charge a ton for them at the Pit Master like 250k a potion

or blast-discharge wand stave rod.
Basically BH coli hickory sticks. but godly expensive
--D

[*Idjit*]

create a series of items that do for canopied arbor does for druids, but for offensive capabilities for each class.
"Tile" effects. It enhances like a devak but only in one room and wears off after 10 minutes.
bard: an item that gives the room 'perfect acoustics' (cry of avatars goes nuts has extra damage).
(and then the other 7 class equivalents)
and charge several hundred K for these.
other part of that : make even these items only work in specific rooms like devak's lodge command
"this spot doesn't have good enough acoustics for you to emplant a tuning fork. Try another location"
So that you have to dagger a mob to that spot.
Requires reworking some other things so that there are 'spots all over the mud' where the expensive thingies are used.

[*Idjit*]

anything else to do with positional warfare like dropping a boulder down a shaft onto something.
Trick would be getting xp for something dying in another room.
trap-killing mobs and selling the trap pieces for boatloads of cash
observation: you don't have to use that mob's calculated on-kill XP you just need procedural XP like sceptre XP
more akin to solving a trap-laying AQ than a true mob kill.
Some new process.
--D

[Insomnia]

Add a special ability to certain mobs – maybe with some quests around this as well – to allow them to enhance your weapon, for a limited amount of time, and add some damage, or a spell proc to it.

• You go to Apollo, pay him 10 mil coins, and get 10 minutes of the cry of the avatars proc (with reasonable proc rate) on your weapon.
• You go to Kyla, the wandering cleric, pay her 2 mil coins, and get 10 minutes of the turn undead proc on your weapon.
• You go to a vicious Crimson Death, pay it 5 mil coins, and get 10 minutes of the fear proc on your weapon.

I can easily imagine Gorka paying 100 mil for 100 minutes of extra damage to test if it changes something in his exp rate.

[Gorka]

white-list some buffing (but not too buffing) potions that CAN work in the coliseum with a new flag.

Interesting Idjit suggests something about the coliseum, as this would effect the amount of drachma a player can get indirectly. You see, I could have written the same post about Drachma... I know I am not the only player who has thousands of drachma without anything to spend it on... Once again, some sort of once use or renewable item would appear to be a solution or some kind of perk scheme.

A weapon improvements for drachma scheme would be nice, but I don't think we should always think of improvements as being damage. Indirect improvements like reduced lags, regens, beacons, vaults just as attractive to me.

Surely new potions would be the easiest to implement. Potion of Second Wind anyone?... maybe potions of other prime spells? Vault perks perhaps for drachma. I accept not everyone has drachma or coins, and it's mostly an "end of game" rebirth issue, but I think any old player will agree that our economy is the most flooded it's ever been in general.

[*Idjit*]

This is horridly off topic Gorka but the 'Chaos Pit' in coliseum needs some basis to ever get used again.
It was fun to do small team efforts in there.
We took items out of chaos pit and that sucked the wind right out of its sails.
--D

[jayclimbs]

This discussion is reflective of rl - for an extremely small fraction of our planet. A few get to where money isn't everything, it's nothing. In the real realm, individuals have found two ways to deal with the issue: Power and Legacy.
Power involves playing a game against other very powerful people. Think DuPont vs. Durant. The stakes are high and often the risks are, too. The collateral damage is, in rl, usually very high as well. It's where we get massive poverty, starvation, and slavery. Currently, Sloth's version of this avoids most of the collateral damage, but also offers no reward. No real harm is done, no real gain accrues. The Arena hardly ever gets used. An alternative to the Arena, to have lasting 'benefits' in regard to character power, would have real consequences, ideally limited to those individuals who engage in it. PvP is one solution to the god-level dilemma: pit the gods against each other and insulate the lowbies from collateral damage. Whatever winning involves, losing should sting. Perhaps loser loses one prime power for a week, while the winner gains it for that week (modify time period to regulate useage). In the case of 'same prime class' only the loser loses. Maybe make drachma - lots of drachma - an additional loss - note 'LOSS'; I'm guessing drachma gain by a winner would either be meaningless at ubergod-level, or greatly imbalance the game. If implemented, it should be implemented with a 'no holds barred, no complaints allowed' rule to save Imms the nightmare it usually produces. Entry into the area that allows it should require some sort of affidavit or waiver that requires positive response by each participant.
My opinion fwiw, is that PvP does not 'fit' Sloth well. The player base seems more cooperative than competitive overall, and those who are more or less 'neither' seem to be isolationist. On top of that, historically PvP is a real pita to game managers. And it tends to alienate players and eventually transform the game into something Sloth very much is not.
Legacy, on the other hand, seeks to establish some longterm (preferably eternal) commemoration. Think Carnegie and public libraries. These people recognize the inherent worthlessness of (their own) cash and so spend it profligately on public works: art, architecture, institutions. In Sloth terms, perhaps an area where players can create public rooms without running through the rigmarole of applying for Imm-ship. Controlling what that room does/has/retains/etc. would be a tough coding job, but perhaps would be worth considering. Applying a star system, where other players could rate each room, could provide some incentive and reward in that regard.
In the end, any means that reduces wealth in a realistic fashion on Sloth will either A. nerf newbies and make it harder to rise in the ranks or B. provide some institutional benefit with little/no benefit to the contributor. Otherwise, expenditures will only serve to raise the bar to a new level, creating more powerful characters that must then seek or demand new benefits. At some pt., each player must either decide they enjoy the game 'as is' or quit.

[Insomnia]

Add something that can cast long-lasting spells on you, for money. E.g. a mob to which you can pay 1 mil coins, and get resist webs for 24 hours in return. Or iron skin. Or dark cloak. (Or blessing of the avatar, perception, mobility, protection from evil, rejuvenation, grace... you get the idea.)

[Insomnia]

Add a magic carpet (not the existing item from the eqlist, but a new one) that you can hire for a fixed period of time, so that it follows you everywhere and helps you carry more items and weight.