Oh look... Another Rebirth Topic...

[Josiah]

Gorka, let's try to keep it civil.

It is obvious that you really like prime class being the defining characteristic of your play. Your disagreement has been noted. It also seems that, so far, you are alone in that opinion. Does anyone else share Gorka's opinion that prime skills should be untouchable? Please speak up!

All the players I've spoken to directly, as well as the other players in this thread, are all excited about the potential of a significant New Thing. Would it increase my XP/minute to be have a pet juju zombie? Absolutely not, the very idea is farcical. Would it be fun? Absolutely.

Please you expand on the "millions of other ideas" you want us to consider. Share the really good ones here so we can have a change of heart and start backing your brilliant innovations!

[cyprimus]

I think prime class should be most important.

the way its heading now there is no significant difference in characters at high levels... its either a caster or a no caster.. killing same mobs... etc..

I like that the game is replayable... that is.. i play a different classo, and its largely a new game.

[Teron]

Yea, I think that's a reasonable restriction that most people would agree to... 2nd rebirth sets you back to 1/1/1, 3rd rebirth sets you back to 1/1/1/1, etc.

I'd rather simply save the amount of rebirths and enable skills depending on each classo each time the char rebirths.
For one, the first rebirth is a class order change.
Second, even the 2nd rebirth may be a classo adjustment.

It means that fixing class order is rather limiting.

Now imagine someone having played with same classo for 4 rebirths to unlock certain prime skills.
What if he wants to change their classo due to necessity or for a change of gameplay?

Thus, if a player had accumulated several rebirths/prime skills, he'd still need to change classo.

Surely that should allow him to use the prime skills of his new classo.

In short:
- log the number of times a char has rebirthed
- let him pick the appropriate amount of skills from his new classo at avatar, where the entire classo has been picked
- rather count the number of new prime skills one can pick - don't limit at 1 per class, because some classes have several (presage, focus/apply poison, sleight of hand).

For example, at 3d rebirth I chose my classo to be:
wa/mo/ma/ba
Id be free to pick 3 prime skills from mo/th/ba, but I'd be able to go with focus, presage and call of the sidhe.

On my 5th rebirth at
wa/dr/mo/ma/th
I'd pick shield of thorns, presage, focus, apply poison, sleight of hand, for example.


Re: unique skills for primes.
I'm not against new skills for prime classes for rebirths - warrior lacks serious active skills despite having the white privelege. Who doesn't like new powerful skills. That, however, would require serious creative thinking, discussions and planning.

It's simpler to work with existing concepts of prime skills, albeit neutered for non-primes.

Also, I don't think these concepts are mutually exclusive. If one can pick between a new skill for his class or a costly skill from another class, that choice might be interesting.

[Gorka]

Here are some types of ideas i'd like to see in a rebirth (class/skill set)...

* Area recall points
* Shadowwalk mobs
* Personal continent based beacons that work like clan recalls

Some of Neptunes original ideas...

//Gold Accumulation Bonus
//Skill Percentage Bonus
//Spell Percentage Bonus
//Raise the caps of secondary and tertiary max_stats
//Mana Regen Bonus
//HP Regen Bonus
//Move Regen Bonus
//Age Reduction
//Weight Percentage Reduction

Essentially a common avatar type class for rebirths... a far better idea than giving me frostbolt... and without the un-originality of "I don't know what I want, so just give me everything." Other people, even Driven have posted original ideas that could form a rebirth skill set/class. But we must appreciate the time this would be to implement, thats why I kept my proposal for Rebirth shop so easy/simple because these threads tend to get bogged down... already we are page 4.

First, I want to see rebirth shop, so I can work on some existing +1's.

[Driven]

Gorka, the addition of prime classes on rebirth is a natural extension of our 8-class system and abstractly makes sense from the context of "rebirth". I hate to break it to you, but you are *already* a mage, with access to firewind and disintegrate. What truly makes a prime mage tick is the real question. Having -31 spellsaves and a badass spell bonus, with tons of mana, high intelligence, and good regen. Having frostbolt does add to its unique nature, but that is not the only thing that makes a mage a mage. Like I said, you aren't going to make a mage start fighting like a warrior and vice versa... it just wouldn't be optimal. Your counterargument that frostbolt would improve Gorka in the arena is laughable, because you yourself are vying for +hand damage and +damage... how is *that* not going to improve your arena score and "mess with the balance"? You argue against yourself in the same sentence. And to continue to hold to the idea that your firewind (or eventual frostbolt at 90% nerfed damage, nerfed 30 mana) somehow replaces Ezekiel in a group is even more laughable. His frostbolt already does 900 damage... your wind does 600 if you're lucky, and I doubt your frostbolt would ever cap 750. Not to mention that he can cast 50 of them and you can cast 30 of them. The difference is laughable.

If you disagree with that or can't see it, then I don't know what to tell you. A lot of other people see it and are excited by it. Saying it's a "dumb idea" and that you are going to "call me out on it" is completely unnecessary and does not engender a healthy environment. It's toxic and childish. Generally you do a good job of arguing for things, but a little civility goes a long way.

That being said, let's discuss the rebirth shop and get some consensus on it before this thread devolves into more childishness.

[Gorka]

I'm so glad there is an adult in the room, and it just happens to be you.

[Driven]

You forgot that I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany.

[*Breeze*]

Back on topic or I lock this thread.

I may not always reply (eg. THINGS I ALREADY COMMENTED ON, BUT I ALWAYS READ..)

[Driven]

Sorry Breeze. I think we are hoping to receive approval on Gorka's proposal here:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=4851&start=15#p38849

I recommend we stay with this proposal and that at some point in the future tackle the potential for infinite progression (with exponential requirements), as Breeze has commented that something would need to happen to the mobs to allow infinite progression to go through. Given the extraordinary complexity of that, I recommend staying with Gorka's proposal. Questions to be answered:

1) Is Gorka's proposal legit as-is? (with the exception of adding perm glamour that Taron brought up to enable perm visage)

2) If not, does Gorka's proposal need to be scaled back? (as in fewer points available for purchase and/or higher xp requirements)

Thanks ahead of time for your time, Breeze... life is insane with kids and we appreciate your time.

[Teron]

Gorka, when I suggested to add quests for us to earn area recalls, Splork said we had enough beacons.
Otherwise, I support the idea.

[Gorka]

Gorka, when I suggested to add quests for us to earn area recalls, Splork said we had enough beacons. Otherwise, I support the idea.

Yeah, well I was thinking that the connection room (generally the start point on the map) should be the area recall point and it should be fixed, although for an area like dweb clearly it should be down near the dungeon. Although for some areas it's not useful, there are plenty of situations where it is...

* You're fighting a mob, your losing... you can area recall rather than full recall.
* Some areas have parts that are one way and you need to return.
* Leaders could area recall and convo the group back to a start point to continue the run.

I'm sure there are many other reasons. In regards to old areas not being run, in some cases they aren't run because the xp is crap, but in some cases the run is too long to kill one or two mobs. Here is the run to grvaldh on island for instance...

speedwalk("3e1s1e1s1e1s2e1s2u1e1d1e1n")
speedwalk("3n1e3n1w2n2w1u2w1d1w1s3w1n1w2s2d1w2s1w")
speedwalk("1w2n2w1n2w1n3w1n1w1s1w2n1w2n2w1n1w2w1n2w")

AH also has some crazy stupid runs, we don't really have the beacons to cover them (my greater beacon is fixed at ogres - so it's always tied up) without running each time, and the metrics from my runs that I analyze prove that more than half the time of any run is actually not used fighting, and a large proportion of that is running and moving through excess doors and trig traps.

There are two areas of improvement that can be targeted to minimize standing time on xp runs... and they are perm spells and more mobility options, and they could be crafted into the game in a lot of ways, such as one way portals openable and purchased from vaults to area recall points, or other creative means.

[Filk]

Guys, why are you discussing all that in that topic? There is one important question up. Give Breeze opportunity to answer please, because he kinda miss all questions in your spam.

2. Atm I have final say on most things.
2a. I rarely veto, and the current staff has approval to do most things. They email me before doing them mostly.

Breeze, would you be so nice and comment that post
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=4851&start=30#p38852

And aprrove it, or say why you think its not posible.
So Teker could start working on it when he have time and desire

[*Splork*]

I veto Splork's comments about additional area recalls