Exploits, Cheats and Hacks.

[Gorka]

Hi Everyone,

No doubt if you are reading this, you are probably from Dragonsworn, wanting to know how to do something...

In this thread I will start posting game exploits...

Why am I doing this...? Well, either the imms remove my exploits, and therefore admit that even they know the game is supposed to remain somewhat challenging for people to want to play it, or else they leave the exploits up and the game just gets silly... which I would argue has already happened.

I will stop posting exploits if the immortals decide to fix the game and restore the challenge. Just for the record, I offered to immortal and fix all my exploits more than 12 months ago to protect the game... Now I'm just wondering if anyone actually cares?

Either way, my point gets made, and to be honest, I don't really care about being right... I've spoken out, at personal cost, because I believe what I am saying is the unpopular truth, and time will show me to be correct. Some of this stuff will be silly and trivial, even old and well known, other bugs will require the game to be shutdown lest you all be walking around in free drachma.

Let's see... hmm, so many things to post in my files... Lets go with some coliseum cheats first... For the record, my scores were legit in the coliseum I can provide the logs, but yes, I could have bet any ones score. So Ezekiel's comment about me being bitter about being beaten, was purely his incorrect projection. I can take back the score anytime I wanted... I would prefer to do it, without cheating though, and therefore I haven't done it yet.

The coliseum doesn't kick you out after the timer if you are in the room to the north. The coliseum timers aren't very accurate by a few seconds. This is enough time to sweep in from the north, press buttons, kill mobs and repeat if you time it right... giving you unlimited kills in the coliseum. It's works in practice, however there is a possibly depending on how it was coded, that it might report that your run was more than 10 minutes... so your cheat might not be transparent, I never went as far to actually use the cheat to win... but I know the unlimited kills thing works.

[Gorka]

Morning Readers!

Hope you are having a great morning... Ready for your next installment? Great!

So perhaps you've just forged the new thief artifact and you need to know how to level it to level 10 in a few hours. No problem, I got you covered. Simply wear the hood and a backstab weapon and go to Koshey in Kitezh and type backstab Koshey. A message will appear saying something to the effect that you can't stab him, but your spirit meter will still increase. Don't forget to eviscerate Koshey after you've filled your spirit points up to 100,000 or so.

Don't worry you won't kill him eviscerating, he regens to full just like you do in Herbalist Isle!

Level 10 might take 30mins of spamming backstab Koshey, so write a script and go take a coffee! I suspect most mobs in the game that are no attack will work exactly the same.

As the imms used to say... Enjoy!

The last item you need to level it is a Bezel Fire Opal which is 180 drachma, but don't buy it now... because later I can tell you how to buy it for free!

[Driven]

Question: Why haven't you reported bugs like these to me?

[Gorka]

I honestly didn't realize you had code access till somewhat recently - and I only figured that out by "reading between the lines" of some forum post. I was surprised to learn it. In previous conversations you were always waiting on coders to do things for you... so you were doing all MUDL things then.

But in any case I wouldn't report them to you anyway, your vision for sloth is absolutely nothing that holds to the tradition of the game, and as you are yet to find out, practically everything you've done has exploits. Every single one of your artifacts could be cheesed, the blind clasp is the most OP in the game, the sceptre curing mobs created new exploits, and your conquest system as I reported to you recently, is still clearing items on cards in some way I haven't figured to replicate yet. I would ask someone competent instead who has the self awareness to see pitfalls in the game and there own work - to be frank.

The mana drain thing undermined your conquest system, your decisions make no sense. Why would I spend 100m conquest points on ma regen... and there you are legalising what is essentially free and unlimited mana... it's completely irrational. Why would I try and work with that person? Do I really have to spell it out again?

[Driven]

Based on your post and what others have told me, fixes that went in this morning:
- Koshey and similar mobs have been fixed on gauntlets, sleeves, and hood.
- Immune magic mobs on the sleeves have been fixed.
- Attempting to level your artifact while blind or with no light has been fixed.

I would like to fix the bugs that are in the game, but it requires that I know about them.

Energy drain... for your awareness, all decisions go through the entire immortal staff, not just one person. We talk these issues through, and we aren't perfect. Prior to the fix, you could drain up to 32k mana (before the 16-bit signed integer flipped negative). All of this goes back to the decision not to reset mana to max mana on ticks, which was requested by... well, you, because you were losing your mana from your max mana mode. So as you can see, it's not always so easy to 'have self-awareness to see pitfalls in the game'.

I think a case can be made that at the moment it's too easy to drain. For example, the wardens can be very painful to drain from (especially when the energy drain doubles), whereas the venerable plaintwraiths are not. The only thing that has been undermined from energy drain is mana regen. Mana itself is quite valuable, as the cap on drain is based on your max mana, and that determines exactly how big of a mob you can kill without having to do multiple runs. I won't speak for other immortals, but I have been quite sluggish in reacting to this because regen has always been an amazingly boring aspect of the game, and so having a legit means of gaining mana in other ways is a good thing (to get rid of the most boring aspect of the game). To say that this undermines the entire conquest system is obtuse--it undermines mana regen, and that's it. We can look at making draining more difficult, but I would like to hear other people's opinions before getting rid of energy drain or nerfing it beyond usefulness.

[Gorka]

All of this goes back to the decision not to reset mana to max mana on ticks, which was requested by... well, you, because you were losing your mana from your max mana mode. So as you can see, it's not always so easy to 'have self-awareness to see pitfalls in the game'.

Are you sure this was me? I have no recollection of what you are talking about. Maybe it was someone else? I've barely used my max mana set in 2 years.

I think a case can be made that at the moment it's too easy to drain.

No really!?! The groups you are in were visiting there every 10-15mins and now you've just noticed? You've got people who are now 9x40 rebirth and they still don't have a mana regen eqset? Now you've noticed?

I would like to hear other people's opinions

Let me save you the work, the majority love draining and want to keep it. I mean what do you expect, you can't give people hard drugs and then take it away from them without a dependence, and then what are you going to do? Let the majority rule and keep draining? Democracy has spoken?

What you really should be asking is, what is in keeping with the original core tenants of sloth. Yes, the game needs to evolve and improve, but not at the expense of selling out it's core principals. Work within the structures there are, vaults could be improved, spectral shield could be improved, base mana regen could be improved, mage weapons could gain small amounts of mana. I don't know of anyone who doesn't think a 5-10min regen is too long. I'm completely on board there... but the sloth way is you earn things - not fill up for free. It's been in too long, now we have people who have essentially finished the game already due to it... but what's done is done now, fix it and move on.

Energy drain traditionally hardly worked at all on any mob, you were lucky to get your mana back in casting it, and that's why players had seemingly forgotten about it, until it was accidentally re-discovered on mobs which were really errors created by builders. I bet Idjit didn't even consider for a minute what he had accidently done in Herbalist, because he made Herbalist before drain was rediscovered. I doubt drain was ever supposed to accrue more than 100-200 mana... you would be best to go through old mobs and consider how much mana early mobs were given on average - to figure out how drain was initially intended to work. Stick close to that tradition.

I will hold posting my exploits, until a solution is found that doesn't undermine the games traditions, and ensures that improvements are earned.

If things improve I will share my other exploits with immortals to fix, and won't share publicly with the players. Some are extremely easy to fix... unfortunately some are structural and difficult.

[Driven]

It was because of spectral shield...

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=4822&p=38626&hilit=max+mana#p38626

I have already started the discussion with the immortal staff on making draining more difficult.

[Gorka]

It was because of spectral shield..,.

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=4822&p=38626&hilit=max+mana#p38626

I have already started the discussion with the immortal staff on making draining more difficult.

4 years ago, yes I remember now. The days of running lucifer in quest sized groups... and sometimes we'd all get in max mana to regen full, and then before fight someone would make the decision to use a heavenly scroll and we would lose mana rather than gain it.

The crystal goblet artifact is also bugged. From memory you have two options to feed it, every day or half day. It turns out if you feed it every half day, there is some maths error and you get the full days points towards leveling. So effectively you could level it in half the intended time. It also uncovered that there are chop mobs that are only lvl 40... they should probably all be 41 if they are chop. That's why Okuni started appearing all over the mud. I also learned to keep my mouth shut about things that I found as that info was shared by everyone like it was there own.

Most game exploits come down to improper supervision of area builders and the things they inadvertently put into the game through mobs/procs.

[Ezekiel]

Ah yes, the nostalgia...the quest sized groups killing Luci or Gorka actually being in groups? Ironic to take suggestions from those that are only ever out for themselves in the mud and find the rest of the playerbase so useless as to never associate with or run with.

At least when I had qualms with the imms, I went to them personally, instead of extorting movement out of them by means of the forum. When I disagreed with their final word, I voted with my feet and left the game and cooled off instead of raging against them on the crier and attacking the game itself on the crier by exposing its inefficiencies (when there are far more great things to value in the mud than there are to complain about, though you wouldn't know it by your weekly whines). How do you think your post looks to anyone perusing the site that may want to newly join the game? But then I guess you don't care, just as long as the playerbase that does have to play fits within your little boxes. Truly a class act. Like a petulant child that will burn down the schoolhouse because the teacher won't give him his way.

I'm not saying some of what is discussed is not worth some type of constructive dialogue, I'm just disgusted at the approach. Nothing like putting a gun to someone's head publicly to get your way...and you wonder, with such low respect for the game itself in behaviors like these, why they wouldn't entertain your imm application?

Still on another thread being salty about coli eh? You attempted without cheating, as did I (which anyone with a modicum of a conscience would). You were the top score at one point, now you're not. Get over it. If you could have taken the best score for the long haul, you would have after rebirth. You clearly attempted your best score as you spent time getting the top spot (for that moment) and moved to the next to spend time getting top spots there (for those moments). If that was in haste to get to 9x40 and you didn't hit your true max, that's your fault, but don't act like your scores being less than highest now is some noble thing by not cheating or some sacrifice. That's laughable. Are we supposed to laude you for having a conscience (like nearly every person I've met on the mud does)? The fact that you're bringing up the coli leaderboard on yet another thread is pretty sad and shows how badly your delicate ego is hurt over it.

[Gorka]

Wow Eze, A total distortion of my character. I'll leave you to your imagination. I usually listen to criticism and check my heart, but that stuff is so wildly off, I'm just laughing.

However you are right about one thing... my posts have involved a lot of "theater and drama" for the expressed purpose of trying to get action. It's been deliberate.

I don't appreciate Maniac's vision for Sloth, because it's not in line with it's original ethos, and he doesn't appreciate my point of view. There have been a number of instances which have lead me to conclude that "making a lot of noise publicly" is the only thing that works and that he has to be held accountable publicly...

1) The introduction of a proc weapon which had "Firewind" - he backed down but basically re-added it with disint.
2) The introduction of the sceptre, remember the first weeks the insane xp it gave, while he finished getting his char to 9x40?
3) The existence of group sized mobs with inappropriate levels making them charmable.

Every instance has been a struggle to get the point across. If there is another method that works, let me know.

And with this incident with drain, I expect the same thing, the illusion of change, but no real nerfing. So I adapt my methods to those I think get results... not those I would use if he'd actually listen to me. I feel like I have to exasperate him with proof, lest things go disregarded. I try to speak what I think is the truth, I'm not anti-Maniac, I support his conquest system, and I suspect the bugs with that probably aren't his fault but something in the base code.

Generally in life, people who make changes, get vilified... it's the price you pay for sticking your neck out. Maniac gets me holding him accountable. I get Ezekiel or Mage attacking me. It's just a price you pay when you are a "change agent." At the end of the day, I've done what I've done, some balance change will come of it hopefully... and the quietness will return. I support Maniac's enthusiasm, just wish it was better guided - and at the end of the day that's just my opinion, although I will justify that with sloth tradition. At the end of the day it appears people generally accept the drain exploit was over the top... I stuck my neck out, crap flies around a few days... things will return better? Chill.

[Driven]

Your characterization of yourself as some benevolent force working for good, and that you are actually an innocent chap who is 'forced' to use ill means for good ends because Maniac (who is the *real* evil one in this play) has given you no other choice, is actually kind of funny.

[Gorka]

http://www.slothmud.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=4851&start=45#p38917

4 years ago I realized Maniac's path would take game away from it's tradition, and called him out on it, before he was even an immortal. The next day he showed me his "unconditional love."

You tell Driven 'stop defending your dumb idea'
You tell Driven 'the change is too radical'
You tell Driven 'I'm calling you out on it'
Driven tells you 'ok I'm done... you are a dick and I am done'
Driven tells you 'there are many ways to handle situations and you consistently choose disrespect'
Driven tells you 'you have crossed a boundary with ne and I am done with ykur disrespect'
You tell Driven 'respect is earned, not given'
Driven tells you 'says you'
Driven tells you 'I choose the opposite'
Driven tells you 'I choose unconditiknal love and respect until I get trampled on'

Now we have the guy whose been abusing the exploit in groups for months, pretending to fix it. Unfortunately not many of the old players are around anymore to talk about the sugary sell out the game has become.

Lucifer has gone from a 3 regen, quest group mob, to a sugary 6 man 1 run mob, with exploits he uses himself, and the proc weapon's he's implemented.

If this is what you all wanted then fine. Looks like I am one of the last one's to oppose, and maybe the best thing I can do is just fade out quietly. Well played Grima.

[Driven]

I'm not saying I'm perfect, I'm not saying you haven't done some good for the game, I am saying that you are not innocent.

[Ezekiel]

Ah yes Gorka, calling yourself an 'agent of change' to justify your lack of rational discourse. I'm sure there are plenty of Machiavellian types that considered themselves 'agents of change' to justify using brute force in public display instead, pressing others to bend and acknowledge their viewpoints regardless of means. Like the unabomber...

Great deluded vantage point to take there.

[jayclimbs]

Wow.
I can agree with half of what Gorka says - and come away feeling guilty about associating with it. I see there's some bad blood/angst/whatever betwixt G and a certain Imm: keep it off the forum. Gorka, at this point it's personal and makes you look like a just.plain.horrible.guy. Keep it to the facts, don't embellish, don't offer your skewed and inflated descriptions. Please.
Looking at the current drain situation from a less-than-9x40 perspective (this from my lady,working on a 6x cleric; not me), it allows weaker players to have a real impact, rather than a come-along-for-the-ride and be useless sensation for every group. I personally think it's too much, but if nerfing is done in a way that re-renders lowbies as useless limbs of the group octopus, it would hurt rather than help the game. So please spray the nerf carefully.
I'm also agreed that a certain fancy weapon that costs 1000D is way over the top - but it's here now. In general, any fix that relies on equipment is going to be problematic, if only for its tendency to make every member of each class a cookie-cutter clone of everyone else in it. But we move on, because unless it truly breaks the game, it's going to stir up a hornet's nest to remove/nerf/whatever it.
Finally, I'd like to highlight one major aspect of the game's tradition and purpose, and that is its social aspect. MUDs - MULTI-user dungeons - are meant to be social. It's not a fringe-benefit of these games, it is their main purpose. If you've not been social on this medium, you have disowned its major tradition: bringing us together. We don't have to agree with everything, each other, or anything in general; at least we play the game together. Without the desire to do that, we could just purchase an rpg from say, 1995 that we could sit at home and play by ourselves, each of us in her/his own lil'lonely world...if that's what we want.